which is most important: the bible or jesus?

I’m one chapter shy of finishing the latest book by Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch, ReJesus: A Wild Messiah for a Missional Church, for an upcoming Leadership Journal review. These two Aussies are some of the most prolific writers and thinkers these days about all things missional. (See, for example, Hirsch’s recent article in LJ, Defining Missional.) In this book the authors explore their regular claim that all missiology must begin with the doctrine of the Trinity rather than ecclesiology. In other words, mission proceeds from the very nature of God rather than from any theology of the church.

I’ve appreciated the book, but will save any commentary for the LJ review. However, there is one quote towards the end of the book that is too good to wait. Of the tendency to prioritized the Bible over Jesus the authors write,

In a way we are not really the “people of the Book,” as we are so often called– as far as we can ascertain, it was the Muslims [who] gave us this tag. In a far more fundamental way we can claim rather that we are truly Jesus’ people before we are anything else. Our focal point remains the Messiah, and we must be guided by the Bible toward a true experience and understanding of Messiah.

This seems like a fairly straightforward aspect of Christianity but often doesn’t play out this way. People often tell me the primary problem with present-day Christianity is lack of Biblical knowledge. I’d argue that the real issue any time Christianity goes off track (as it often has) is when the person of Jesus is set aside. Frost and Hirsch are right that the Bible guides “toward a true experience and understanding” of Jesus, but the Bible can never replace the actual focus of the Christian’s worship.

As always, I’m curious about your take on this. I imagine many of you have observed the tendency to prioritize the Bible to the point that Jesus becomes of secondary importance.

David Swanson

March 30, 2009

book, church, mission, Scripture, theology

Alan Hirsch, Defining Missional, leadership journal, Michael Frost, ReJesus

19 responses to “which is most important: the bible or jesus?”

Daniel K

March 30, 2009 at 9:23 pm

I agree that this principle gets messy in practice. I think it forces us to dive into a more organic and, by nature, relational faith. It gets particularly messy because we use the Book as the level by which we measure orthodoxy. When people claim Christ but reject the Book it gets confusing. The more I grow in relationship with Christ the more I discover the primacy of the person over but not in contrast to the Book. I find security in the person of Christ when I don’t understand the Book but I utilize the Book to discover more of the person of the triune God. In this tension I have grown in God and in receiving his word. I need people to trust me to uphold the tension. When someone claims Christ but rejects the Book I want to extend to them the same trust but that action often makes me feel uneasy. I guess I covet the security of simply knowing who’s on my team 🙂

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Edgar

March 30, 2009 at 10:36 pm

It’s all about the Trinity. Now to answer the question – I’ll say: Jesus is most important.

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Mitch

March 31, 2009 at 9:39 am

Hey Dave, interesting quote. I don’t think you can have one without the other. Jesus was the Word. You can’t know, experience, relate to (add any trendy term you choose here) Jesus without the Word. To have Jesus without the Bible trends dangerously toward gnosticism. The Word gives us all we need for life and godliness…to “know” Jesus without the Word is to create jesus on our own terms. Jesus draws us on His terms, not our own…where do we find His terms? In the Word.

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Edward Brouwer

March 31, 2009 at 10:01 am

Hey Dave, this is Edward at Montreat Church–haven’t seen you in years of course but am interested to see your blog. I am in the middle of studying Greek and as I read Mark 2 this morning I was interested to see how translators take the Greek phrase “and he brought/spoke the word” as “he preached”. How does this relate to the point you are making about our focus on being people of the Book versus being Jesus People? In some ways the recorded words of Christ and the nature of his being THE WORD are inseparable. The challenge of course is with all the words that are Spirit spoken outside of the gospels. WE know that “all Scripture is inspired by God”, but in order to keep from erring on the side of bibliolatry (the error of idolizing the Bible), we must invite the Spirit to interpret God’s Word and interpret every word through the lens of the life and words of the Incarnate WORD.

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stanford

March 31, 2009 at 2:46 pm

Muslims are people of the book. For them the Quran is the purest and ultimate revelation of Allah. It is a textual revelation. It would be an error of Christian theology to assume that our view of revelation is primarily textual. The Christian equivalent to the Quran, isn’t the Bible…it is Jesus. Jesus is our purest revelation of God. The Bible is a reliable account of God’s self disclosure. To playfully invert Edward’s emphasis, our primary access to God is through his INCARNATE Word. God became flesh not text. That said, the text is reliable and imperative.

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Bob

March 31, 2009 at 6:28 pm

I think this is a bigger debate/tension these days and is not often recognized. It seems to appear more in the “ultimate truth” conversation. Where do we find THE truth? The Bible? Triune God?

You know my opinion on the matter, but here is a question worth contemplating as it relates: Do you pray to your Bible?

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Otakudad

March 31, 2009 at 9:36 pm

to support what Stanford says, we only need look at John 1:1

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

I mean, Jesus is the creator, right? Theologically speaking, he is the creator in the trinity. So, Jesus bespoke the earth and us, and everything we see. Jesus, as said in John, WAS the word. He is the inspiration (even before his earthly birth). He is the one through whom we can know the father (as otherwise, it is difficult to imagine relating to God, the father).

Therefore, while Jesus IS the word, the bible is our means of knowing Christ. The bible is our proof of his goodness. The bible is our way of knowing God’s consistency, and his plan for Christ.

In Star Wars terms, Jesus is R2-D2. 🙂 The story goes through many people and through a long history, but ultimately it centers on the person/deity of Christ. And therefore, the book itself lifts Christ higher. Who are we to place a book above God himself?

Without the bible, we wouldn’t know Christ as intimately, sure… we wouldn’t be able to understand his love for us as well… but he’d still be. He’d still love us, and he’d still be the center of everything that matters.

Excellent topic, man.

I do think it’s appropriate for churches, however, to ensure that the people are reading the Bible. Again, not to deify the scripture itself, but because it is such a valuable and amazing tool to help us get closer to the one it’s all about. But while it is inspired by God himself, and while it is important for its textual validity and its historical validity as well as the religious aspects, it’s still just a tool… a means of getting to know our creator, judge and biggest fan. 🙂

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David

April 1, 2009 at 11:26 am

Thanks for the comments. Edward- I still have a sweater you gave me when I was in college. It was a hand-me-down then, but is still holding up. Funny.

I appreciate the balance being sought in much of what has been said. While we all seem to agree that Christ is primary, there is a hesitancy to say that too strongly at the risk of losing the guiding context of Scripture. Fair enough.

That said, I resonate strongly with Stanford’s point (It would be an error of Christian theology to assume that our view of revelation is primarily textual. The Christian equivalent to the Quran, isn’t the Bible…it is Jesus. Jesus is our purest revelation of God.) and Bob’s question (Do you pray to your Bible?).

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otakudad

April 2, 2009 at 12:25 am

David, I know you’d rather present things to be chewed on, but I’m interested in your perspective here, if you don’t mind going on a limb and putting what you’re thinking out in the open…

I guess the question for me is, that of course, Jesus is the key. Without him, there’s nothing. Nothing at all.

But the Bible is of very great importance, at least to my perspective, because I don’t see how one could know God, without God revealing himself to us. And since we’re not regularly conversing with God (like, audibly) like Adam, Moses, or others in the Bible, or regularly hearing him speak in tangible ways, then how else are we to relate or connect?

Like I said before, I don’t see the Bible as something to be deified. But I do see it as our primary tool to communion with God. Therefore there is reverence for the book, without worship. I would never say that Bible reading is all one needs to be a healthy Christian. I do, however, know that knowing the Bible, and being in it regularly does somehow, give me more balance. I don’t assume this is because the book itself gives me some strange powers or properties, but because reading it is an act of worship towards the one I’m trying to learn about and become more like.

Again, I know this is primary stuff and also, I know that like you said, it’s not often played out this way. But then again, I think there’s a sad number of people that at least as the most vocal and public of those who claim Christ as their Lord, who do many things that are contradictory to their own claims. I do enough, certainly, to qualify under that statement.

But, I think saying that because some deify the book, makes the book somehow something to shy away from, or to perhaps not use as a focal point? I don’t know that’s right either. Again, I see it is as our primary tool (worthless by itself, but coupled with prayer and service, a great way to grow in our relationship with Christ).

So yeah, I’m wondering where you (and others) would see things differently. That’s not a “challenge” as much as perhaps shining a light on my misunderstanding or confusion of the topic, perhaps.

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otakudad

April 2, 2009 at 12:31 am

Also, as a personal perspective here:

For me, the most valuable thing the Bible does, is give discernment. By putting any situation into view through the lens of the Bible, I am able to tell whether a pastor is speaking from God’s will, or from his or her own perspective entirely. (I’m certain you’ve seen as many have, how many pastors love the pulpit as a place to push their own social agendas, or whatever…) the Bible is a great way to say “hmmm… does that jibe with what I can know of God?”

Or when people claim these supernatural experiences and attribute them to God or Jesus…it’s amazing how so many of these ring false when compared to the history of God’s working that we’ve been given.

For me, again, it’s a wonderful tool that allows us to understand (not fully, of course, but to have any understanding is helpful when you’re trying to follow that entity) God.

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thom

April 2, 2009 at 11:37 am

This is a very interesting conversation. There are so many contexts that can be explored through such conversation. For instance, the proliferation of the Bible through the invention of the printing press. The social context of aural history and written history. The need for both in terms of passing down information. And how all of this has made Christ known to countless amounts of people. How many here knew Christ apart from the scriptures? How many came to consider who Christ is and how that impacts one’s life without the Bible?

If the Christian scripture is indeed a divine revelation then I think the footing with Christ is nearly equal; however, possibly for different reasons. God chose to reveal himself and his amazing grace through Christ as well as the scriptures.

The thing that grabs my attention most is something otakkudad said about the Bible. “…because reading it is an act of worship towards the one I’m trying to learn about and become more like.”

What interests me here is how it is an act of worship? Is it always an act or worship? Is it even an act of worship? When is this a form of obedience as opposed to worship? Can that worship then create an elevated placement of the Bible above who Christ is?

I realize that this sort of becomes a different conversation but I believe it is completely connected.

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David

April 3, 2009 at 6:16 pm

Thanks for the nudge Otakudad. Here’s my unscientific observation: the temptation to love/honor/revere the Bible over/in place of Jesus seems greater than the temptation to devotedly follow and love Jesus while neglecting the Bible. Why? Perhaps it’s that the Bible can be held and studied while a relationship with Jesus is something more mystical. Maybe there is a comfort in a bound canon that can be studied; it feels more manageable than the pursuit of the self-revealing God of the universe.

I agree with the many comments that point out the utter necessity of the scriptures as the way we are directed to Jesus. Absolutely. However, I also agree with Hirsch and Frost that the Bible is our “guide”, it can never be the end. I’d argue that this view doesn’t diminish the role of the Bible, it actually places a high value on the role of the scriptures as that which points to Jesus. And as Stanford points out, it is Jesus- not the Bible- that is our purest revelation of God.

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David

April 3, 2009 at 6:17 pm

I’m hopeful someone will engage Thom’s questions:

The thing that grabs my attention most is something otakkudad said about the Bible. “…because reading it is an act of worship towards the one I’m trying to learn about and become more like.”

What interests me here is how it is an act of worship? Is it always an act or worship? Is it even an act of worship? When is this a form of obedience as opposed to worship? Can that worship then create an elevated placement of the Bible above who Christ is?

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otakudad

April 5, 2009 at 11:16 pm

Well I could answer that… but is that too direct? 🙂

It’s an act of worship for me, because it’s not something I naturally want to do. I’ll admit that reading for me, while it’s often enlightening and encouraging, is not typically the most fun use of my time, and therefore, takes motivation and routine to keep as something regular.

And because I choose to do this action in a mindset of wanting to honor God and put him in a place of reverence, then it becomes an act of worship.

Perhaps I’m being overly simple there. But that’s my understanding of worship. Any action or movement that is done with the intention of glorifying or honoring. And since that is the reason I read, not blind obligation or because the book is worthy of it, (because frankly, I don’t think it is. I know many more books that I think are written better, with more satisfying contents (at least for my tastes)) but because it’s a way for me to honor God and devote myself (I can’t say honestly, that this is daily) regularly, to focus on him. To learn more about him, and to get an example of how I should live.

So yeah, reading it is an act of worship for me. Do I think that reading the bible is always worship? No. I think there are lots of people who do it in a completely scholarly way, that has nothing to do with reverence or honor, or glory. I think there are people who read it as a way to combat it. That is obviously not worship. There are people who read it as pure routine, who do it because they have to, or because they always have, or whatever. That’s just boring and empty, not worship.

So is it always an act of worship? No. Certainly not. And I can say that there have been many times where I haven’t ALWAYS approached reading with reverence towards God. But I ALWAYS approach with prayer to God that he will reveal himself more to me through his word, and that by reading, that I will honor him. I always ask for that. But oftentimes I know I do God a huge disservice through my attitudes and distractions when reading.

The last question, to me, is odd. And again, perhaps I’m just too simple-minded, but it seems a purely academic question. The entire question is “what is your motivation for reading?”

IF you read to honor God and to use it as a tool to know him better, so you can honor him with your life, then it’s worship and (I think) wholly appropriate.

But if you are not, and just reading because “it’s the Bible. It’s the thing to do” then yeah, of course, you’re just elevating the book.

I don’t think it’s much more complicated than that. I mean, that simplifies things, but let’s be honest. We can talk about this around and around, but that’s what it really comes to, right? It comes to our motivation for reading. If we somehow consider the Bible as something unapproachable, or somehow unquestionable, then yeah, we’re putting it in a place, perhaps it doesn’t deserve. But if we’re using it as a God-granted tool as a means of understanding his desired and ongoing relationship with us, then it’s simply that.

I mean this next question quite seriously, so please forgive the direct nature of it, as I mean to throw no stones here: Is this something that comes about more as one is in ministry and has gone to school for Bible study, or something? I just feel that this is a pretty black and white issue. That sure, it can be abused. Like many tools. But if used as intended, it’s a wonderful tool that allows us to worship the One who created us, and by the very nature of that desire to use the Bible this way, keeps it in its rightful place.

Secondly, am I a jerk? 🙂

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alan hirsch

April 12, 2009 at 12:50 pm

Hi Dave, thanks for posting the discussion. And it’s a good one too. As a bit of a student f movements, I do find it intriguing that both the Early Church, as well as the Underground Chinese Church, don’t have ready access to the Bible and yet they thrive. Perhaps one of the side effects of having ready access to the Bible is that our categories become set and we become somewhat more resistant to what God is doing dynamically in our lives and in our world.

Having said this…I need to say that I am a confirmed conservative on the role and function of Scripture in the life of the Church.

Its a funny thing though. Bibliolatry is a sickness in faith. It is interesting that one can never be guilty of Christi-olatry (if there is such a word! 🙂

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tmarkmcconnell

April 13, 2009 at 4:34 pm

In response to Alan,

Actually, in the latest comments by my PhD supervisor he acused me of Chritominism on the bais of a quote from C. Baxter Kruger.

“Over against those who accept the plausibility structure of a given tribe or culture and build a vision of God consistent with its norms, a proper Christian theology takes its stand on Christ alone, in faith that here we meet God of God and thus the one true light illuminating all things”

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tmarkmcconnell

April 13, 2009 at 4:35 pm

Oppss…

Meant Christomonism.

lol

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Susan Richmond

April 14, 2009 at 2:37 pm

Great discussion. Very challenging to think this through. Maybe rather than People of the Book, we need to think of ourselves as People of the Word, the Living Word. Yes, much more mysterious, but much less likely to cultivate legalism. We can have the Bible without engaging in worship, as seen in classes teaching the Bible as literature, but we can’t possibly have Jesus without the revelation and awe of the Word made flesh.

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Theodore A. Jones

November 14, 2009 at 7:41 pm

“It is NOT those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who OBEY the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom. 2:13
What is this law he is talking about?

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